If Your Truck Dies While Driving

nascarjody

New Member
We have found that the ECM relay is going out in the IPDM. Switch the ECM relay & the foglamp relay & that should get you to the nearest dealer to get it taken care of. The relay only comes with the IPDM.



 

honeykeeper

New Member
How much does this idiot box cost?

For those of us that are over 36,000 miles we can also perform the replacement ourselves and it's easy... <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/004.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt005' />



IPDM is the (Intelligent Power Distribution Module in the Engine Room).

Disconnect the battery negative terminal, pop the cover off of the IPDM box, disconnect the plugs, removed IPDM and install in reverse order. The new IPDM comes with all relays and fuses all ready installed. It's a 10 minute swap for someone that has never done it, maybe less....... <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/009.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt009' /> <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/006.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt009' />





Thanks for the heads up..... <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/001.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt075' />
 

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honeykeeper

New Member
Found this interesting thread about the IPDM unit and possible costs with untrained tecs.! <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/005.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt005' /> <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/018.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt075' /> :



http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r209...Warranty-Ripoff



Nissan Warranty Ripoff



Figure I'd share my horrible experience with Grapevine Nissan in Texas.



In April 2008 my 05 Xterra would not start at work. No biggie, get it towed up the street to them, they said they would look into it etc.




No offer for a loaner or anything, wife picks me up, we see a lot loaner car in town later that day. No biggie we've got 2 cars, but I felt shorted on that.



3 Days later I pick the Xterra up and it's got a new fuel pump installed.



About 3 weeks later while driving down the road it dies again we pull over and luckily it restarts. This is my get to work car so I take it back to the lot and tell them it's not fixed and that I would like a loaner while they figure the problem out.



They bus me over to a budget and I get a rent a car Xterra for 35 dollars a day. Said if the warranty covers repairs it will cover the rental (WTF, lets gamble here). So they have my car again for a few days and this time they call me back 2 days later saying it was the battery. So I tell them to replace it since I did not want to bother getting the new battery and swapping it myself and get the car back. Excuse: Voltage on the battery was confusing the computer.



Yep you guessed it, I took it back to work and finished my day there, leaving it dies on the highway again and luckily again I get it restarted, take it up the street and get teh same rental.



This time they have it for 8 or 9 days tell me they replaced the fuel pump again to make sure it was not a DOA fuel pump. (Battery apparently was not the problem $$$ out my pocket). Kicker is while the car guy was driving it over to the wash bay it died on him. So they have it again for a few more days. Lot manager admits they're not sure what the issue was etc etc etc and that they had 2 other cars doing the same thing. Altimas or whatnot.



Either way 2.5 weeks without my car they finally call back and said it's a IDPM or IPDM and that that part is not covered under the warranty. So I said where in my warranty does it specifically exclude that item as it's not there and I argued like hell with Nissan's warranty admins about it.



Either way they cover the rental, but I get stuck with the charge on the IPDM and over the whole ordeal I was out about 700 dollars.



Oh not to mention they gave it back to me empty, told me there's no gas on the lot (Despite a filling station out back!) so I had to put another 80 dollars worth of gas back into my tank.



So that will officially be the last Nissan I ever buy again. I had a Titan previously. Dodge had better warranty service.
 

BLWedge09

Administrator
[quote name='honeykeeper' post='137007' date='Dec 18 2008, 03:00 PM']My tec. said they have been replacing a lot of them on Titans. He said he thought it was about a $150 part but he was only guessing.

Also said the relay is integrated so you can't replace it....... <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/011.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt003' /> I haven't looked yet to confirm that.[/quote]



nascarjody's post says that you can switch the ECM and foglight relay which would seem to indicate that they are removeable/replaceable.
 

honeykeeper

New Member
[quote name='BLWedge09' post='137010' date='Dec 18 2008, 07:17 PM']nascarjody's post says that you can switch the ECM and foglight relay which would seem to indicate that they are removeable/replaceable.[/quote]



[quote name='nascarjody' post='136598' date='Dec 9 2008, 06:03 PM']Switch the ECM relay & the foglamp relay & that should get you to the nearest dealer to get it taken care of.

The relay only comes with the IPDM[/quote]



That's confusing. I would think the fog light relay would also be a purchasable item?



Further confusion is when removing the black plastic cover the schematic on the bottom of it shows the fuses but not the relays. <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/005.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt003' />



I popped the top off and took a few pics. It looked simple enough that I started to mess with the relays and then noticed I was on the wrong side of the board according to the schematic! Hey it's dark out here! <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/009.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt005' />

It appears one must disconnect the battery, unclip and remove the board just to get to the relays to swap them?

I'll remove it later and take some more pics. of what's down there.



Can anyone look up and see if that foglamp relay is available?.....If that goes out then it's one expensive replacement.... <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/012.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt005' />
 

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honeykeeper

New Member
[quote name='BLWedge09' post='137014' date='Dec 18 2008, 09:42 PM']These are the only diagrams/part numbers for relays that I could find in relation to the Titan. I'm not sure if any of them are applicable or not...[/quote]



Doesn't look like it......we'll find out manana and come up with a plan how to do this on the road.
 

honeykeeper

New Member
I attempted to remove the IPDM at the end of the day again while it was getting dark out.

After the board is lifted up there isn't enough room to lean it back and switch the relays at the bottom with all the wires/plugs in the way. <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/011.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt003' />

Seven plugs on the circuit board shown in the pic. in post #1 must carefully be unlocked with a small flat screwdriver and removed, then the board can be removed for switching the relays or total board replacement.

This isn't a job one would prefer to do on the side of the road or with a hot engine bay and you must lean over the battery or between the battery and the open hood which is very close quarters. <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/005.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt001' />

I'll remove it in the day and see what is so special about the relays compared to the 5 removeable relays in my pics. from attempt #1 to identify and swap the fog/ecm relays.
 

honeykeeper

New Member
Removal of the IPDM E/R (Intelligent Power Distribution Module in the Engine Room) circuit fuse/relay board.



I removed the battery negative cable first.

Use a small flat screw driver to push the connector locks inward to release each of the seven plugs.

I placed a tarp over the battery and just leaned into the job.

After all the plugs are removed lift the board pull out upside down only.... <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/012.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt005' />



Three relays have the same numbers on top: NAIS 4 on the left side and on the right side 40814F 1401 Thailand

On the bottom AGM33201 MO8

the 2nd one down or the ECM relay has NAIS 5 on the left side and on the right side 40919 1913 Japan

On the bottom ACM33211 MO9

NOTE: This is the only relay made in Japan.




Pin configurations of all relays are the same and consist of four blades.

You must pay attention to put them back in facing the same direction or they won't plug into the sockets properly so take note when removing.

All four relays on the ECM and Fog Light Relay side of the board face the same direction.



I was going to swap the Fog and ECM relay if they were the same but not with the different numbers....

so something is different and only temporary about the relay "swap to get you to the shop". <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/005.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt005' />



All of the relays on the upper five relay side of the board have a NAIS 4 number like the ECM relay side of the board with four relays.



I got the board back in place, connected the battery negative and reset the clock and radio stations and cranked the engine just like "NORMAL"..... <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/009.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt005' />



The job will take about 30 minutes.



I'll look up the relays and try to find a source for the ECM relay. . <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/004.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt003' /> <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/001.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt001' />
 

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krh2

Administrator
Nice post Tom! Thanks! However, I am totally lost.. I have read the whole thread (I thoujght your pics would help) and still dont understand... why? how? etc... I dont understand all the abbreviations etc.. I guess if it is a recall even though I am out of warantee I could have the stealer do it... I hate not understanding chit...Pisses me off... <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/013.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt003' /> <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/021.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt001' />
 

honeykeeper

New Member
[quote name='krh2' post='137073' date='Dec 20 2008, 08:45 PM']Nice post Tom! Thanks! However, I am totally lost.. I have read the whole thread (I thoujght your pics would help) and still dont understand... why? how? etc... I dont understand all the abbreviations etc.. I guess if it is a recall even though I am out of warantee I could have the stealer do it... I hate not understanding chit...Pisses me off... <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/013.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt003' /> <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/021.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt001' />[/quote]



When the ECM relay fails apparently it can cause stalling of the engine but allow restarting after some time and much confusion/frustration.

ECM relays are starting to fail on Titans and the diagnosis isn't simple for most owners.

The ECM relay and Fog Relay may be temporarily swapped if the engine won't run.

The control board has a 36 month warranty and must be replaced when just the ECM relay may be failing which is expensive.

The ECM relay itself may be inexpensive if we can find a source.



ECM (Engine Control Module)



The Engine Control Unit or ECU is a designated computer that was developed to manage the engine control system. The ECM consists of electronics which are mounted on multi-layer circuit board. The ECM monitors and adjusts the air/fuel mixture and utilizes a catalytic converter to minimize amount of pollution produced from the engine. There are two modes of operation, closed loop, which means the computer has completely taking over the operation system. And open loop which is used when the engine is cold and operates on a preset program. The engine must be at operating temperature before it can go into closed loop.





ECM Engine Control Computer





The ECM monitors the input and output signals produced by various sensors in the system. The ECM then adjusts the system as necessary. Sensors can include: oxygen sensor, coolant sensor, mass air flow sensor, air intake sensor, crankshaft angle sensor, throttle position sensor, camshaft angle sensor and knock sensor. The ECM operating program consists of information cells. These cells hold the code for proper engine operation, if information is out side the cell parameters a MIL (malfunction inductor lamp) or "check engine light".



Once a "check engine" or a "service engine soon" light in your instrument cluster has illuminated the ECM has stored a diagnostic trouble code. This means the computer system on your vehicle has detected a problem with the various systems it controls. Your car or truck has many different sensors that monitor the various vehicle systems. If the trouble code light has been illuminated your vehicle enters into "limp mode" this means it is running on a predetermined program that causes poor mileage and increased emissions. An engine trouble code reader is an easy to use tool. All 1996 and newer vehicles utilize a "D" style plug-in connector that connects to the code reader. On most vehicles the connector is located at the driver's compartment. Once the code reader is plugged in you can retrieve trouble codes the engine computer has stored in its memory. These codes are the same codes the dealer and repair shops use to replace sensors and clear codes.



The ECM outputs a 5 volt reference to most sensors to drive the monitoring circuits. The ECM also controls the radiator cooling fan, air pump controls, fuel pump, EVAP system and more depending on the vehicle. Communication standards have being established in the OBD2 operating system. Among the communication standards controller area networking or CAN has become very popular and can achieve communication speeds of more than 500 Kbps, which is faster than most communication standards.



Advantages of using buses for communication is that if a fault occurs with any of the process modules, it can be reported separately to a diagnostic tool. Manufacturers have different trouble code faults although some are generic. Wiring is simplified by a technique known as multiplexing. In this kind of wiring system is assigned for each module, which consolidates the output and input for that module.
 

krh2

Administrator
[quote name='honeykeeper' post='137078' date='Dec 20 2008, 05:40 PM']When the ECM relay fails apparently it can cause stalling of the engine but allow restarting after some time and much confusion/frustration.

ECM relays are starting to fail on Titans and the diagnosis isn't simple for most owners.

The ECM relay and Fog Relay may be temporarily swapped if the engine won't run.

The control board has a 36 month warranty and must be replaced when just the ECM relay may be failing which is expensive.

The ECM relay itself may be inexpensive if we can find a source.



ECM (Engine Control Module)



The Engine Control Unit or ECU is a designated computer that was developed to manage the engine control system. The ECM consists of electronics which are mounted on multi-layer circuit board. The ECM monitors and adjusts the air/fuel mixture and utilizes a catalytic converter to minimize amount of pollution produced from the engine. There are two modes of operation, closed loop, which means the computer has completely taking over the operation system. And open loop which is used when the engine is cold and operates on a preset program. The engine must be at operating temperature before it can go into closed loop.





ECM Engine Control Computer





The ECM monitors the input and output signals produced by various sensors in the system. The ECM then adjusts the system as necessary. Sensors can include: oxygen sensor, coolant sensor, mass air flow sensor, air intake sensor, crankshaft angle sensor, throttle position sensor, camshaft angle sensor and knock sensor. The ECM operating program consists of information cells. These cells hold the code for proper engine operation, if information is out side the cell parameters a MIL (malfunction inductor lamp) or "check engine light".



Once a "check engine" or a "service engine soon" light in your instrument cluster has illuminated the ECM has stored a diagnostic trouble code. This means the computer system on your vehicle has detected a problem with the various systems it controls. Your car or truck has many different sensors that monitor the various vehicle systems. If the trouble code light has been illuminated your vehicle enters into "limp mode" this means it is running on a predetermined program that causes poor mileage and increased emissions. An engine trouble code reader is an easy to use tool. All 1996 and newer vehicles utilize a "D" style plug-in connector that connects to the code reader. On most vehicles the connector is located at the driver's compartment. Once the code reader is plugged in you can retrieve trouble codes the engine computer has stored in its memory. These codes are the same codes the dealer and repair shops use to replace sensors and clear codes.



The ECM outputs a 5 volt reference to most sensors to drive the monitoring circuits. The ECM also controls the radiator cooling fan, air pump controls, fuel pump, EVAP system and more depending on the vehicle. Communication standards have being established in the OBD2 operating system. Among the communication standards controller area networking or CAN has become very popular and can achieve communication speeds of more than 500 Kbps, which is faster than most communication standards.



Advantages of using buses for communication is that if a fault occurs with any of the process modules, it can be reported separately to a diagnostic tool. Manufacturers have different trouble code faults although some are generic. Wiring is simplified by a technique known as multiplexing. In this kind of wiring system is assigned for each module, which consolidates the output and input for that module.[/quote]



Dang, I know that post took some time, thanks! I still dont get it though.. Guess I will be callin a tow truck one day. I'll print this thread and keep it in my truck though.. <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/001.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt001' />
 

nascarjody

New Member
Ok we did an experiment to see if just switch the relay would permanently fix the problem. The first relay burned out on about 3 days & the second burned out in 4 days. There is something in the IPDM that is burning out the relays. So the IPDM must be replaced to get this fixed. Replacing the relay will be a temporary fix.
 

honeykeeper

New Member
[quote name='nascarjody' post='137550' date='Jan 7 2009, 05:34 PM']Ok we did an experiment to see if just switch the relay would permanently fix the problem. The first relay burned out on about 3 days & the second burned out in 4 days. There is something in the IPDM that is burning out the relays. So the IPDM must be replaced to get this fixed. Replacing the relay will be a temporary fix.[/quote]



Thanks for the heads up. If I need a new IPDM I'll keep the old one and try to figure out what's causing the failure.

I don't see anything on the board that looks suspicious so is it possible it's somewhere else and coming in a plug on the board?

Oh yea.......the bottom side will probably show the culprit.... <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/017.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt001' />
 

krh2

Administrator
[quote name='nascarjody' post='137550' date='Jan 7 2009, 01:34 PM']Ok we did an experiment to see if just switch the relay would permanently fix the problem. The first relay burned out on about 3 days & the second burned out in 4 days. There is something in the IPDM that is burning out the relays. So the IPDM must be replaced to get this fixed. Replacing the relay will be a temporary fix.[/quote]



So is this an official recall? If not, part number? How to? Please? I dont wann get stranded in May out in the middle of the Sovereign country of Texas... <img src='http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/009.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smt001' />
 

nascarjody

New Member
This is not a recall. The how to to switch the relays is in my first post. I have not replaced an IPDM personaly so I cant give a write up on that. Beside kev if you get stuck in TX some where we might be able to find a member out there somewhere that can come get you.
 
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